Adviceositelock: "Houseguest" Edition--updated

"JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t" (jawzx2)
04/07/2018 at 18:49 • Filed to: None

Ok, so here’s my conundrum, an old friend of mine, who is actually oldish (58?) and a bit of an old drunk has fallen out with his landlord, for whom he was working as a property manager in exchange for rent for the last three years. I won’t go into the history and I won’t take strong sides, but I will say I think the landlord is a dick, and that’s a major contributing factor in this.

Any way, my Old Friend is a decent human being, not a thief, not a shit-stirrer, but he has, shall we say, poor prospects. He has been a semi-professional ski-bum, a professional mechanic, (he still has most of his SnapOn tools), but he doesn’t want to “work for the man” and has too little energy and no resources left to start up his own business again... and he definitely has a toxic relationship with alcohol. I like the guy, like I said, he’s a decent human being, generally speaking...

I spent a month or so in 2008, after I lost my job, on his couch, (he was doing the mechanic gig then) and I feel I owe him at least the same consideration with his pending eviction (Landlord is actually shutting down all his rental properties for reasons most likely related to his wife, who is a whack job... It’s a weird situation...) and we have a spare room... but I DON’T want a permanent house guest. If Old Friend has a major character flaw aside from the alcoholism it’s that he’s lazy and good at “extending” his welcome... he’s a good sales-man when he puts his mind to it, especially when selling himself....

argh.

What do I do Oppo? Don’t want to put a friend out on the street (which is where he’ll probably go, as he has no savings, few possessions beyond his tools, which he has repeatedly refused to sell-and managed to find storage space for despite multiple moves and not working as a mechanic for the last 6 years- and no real job) But I don’t want a semi-permanent house guest either.

again; argh.

——

So, thanks to everyone with experience in this sort 9f situation for chiming in... It seems that I can delay my ultimate decision a little while as Landlord had previously given April 1 as the close of rental date, but gave insufficient notice, and/or Vermont tennant law makes it so an eviction takes 30+ days from date of notification... In any case Mrs. BoostAddict and I have decided we will offer time and assistance rather than a place to stay... As well as the storage of his tools at no cost to him... Will know more soon, probably, but thanks again for the input.

DISCUSSION (26)

E92M3 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 10:56

That’s tough, you kind of owe him, but you’ll almost certainly have a hard time getting rid of him, once he is in. Odds are you won’t be friends for long either way.

Go with your gut on this one.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > E92M3
04/07/2018 at 10:59

ha, my gut says “AhhHH!!! What do I do?? These both seem like bad decisions!!”

Danger > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 11:01

Offer free storage for his tools while he gets back on his feet. If you let him stay over, make sure it’s absolutely clear what the time limit is, and that it’s not negotiable.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Danger
04/07/2018 at 11:07

That’s sound advice.

DipodomysDeserti > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 11:23

RIP Jim Lahey

Nick Has an Exocet > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 11:24

Ive had two such house guests. One was a good friend and former business partner. The other was my roommates brother. First off, figure out what a reasonable amount of time is (sounds like 1 month) then triple it. Don’t tell your friend that, but let that be the date in your head. This serves to keep you from getting too frustrated when after a month, he’s still there.

Second, set the clear deadline. Be clear that you are good friends, you want to help him out in any way you can but that there are limits and don’t want to jeopardize friendship. Make it clear that after a month, it starts to hurt.

Third, be prepared to have do some of the legwork. Most people who end up in that situation need more than housing. They need a push, some introductions, or some help building new skills. This is now your project too.

Fourth, if necessary, set some conditions. I have some standard conditions for my guest room. If someone stays more than two weeks, they pay rent. I lift this restriction but only if the friend is getting back on their feet and actually putting in the work. For my friend, that was daily progress updates on his startup. My roommate and I put him through a mini startup incubator. For her brother, we did something similar. He didn’t respond well and had to pay some rent (which is expensive here in the bay area).

Best of luck!

E92M3 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 11:26

You have to decide if you want this friendship to end now, or a month from now.

Sorry mate. If you do return the favor, at least you can feel good about not turning your back on him. Just be prepared for it to turn ugly and having to kick him out in a couple months.

jimz > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 11:31

yep, make the limits clear up front.

and be prepared to have to stick to them.

Flynorcal: pilot, offshore sailor, car racer and panty thief > E92M3
04/07/2018 at 11:48

Came here to say the same. If the alcohol is more important than a steady income or a roof over their head it’ll easily end up being more important than your friendship too. Your real decision is how chewed up you want your life to get in the process of getting to the same inevitable result.

I feel like a dick for even writing this so I can appreciate how crunchy it must be for you at the moment. It might even be fun to have him as a house guest for a few weeks but getting them out requires an enormous amount of effort and conflict and it’ll kill the friendship.

My former friend’s name is Mikey.

Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection > Nick Has an Exocet
04/07/2018 at 12:00

I wish I had taken this advice a dozen years ago when I took in a friend whose band I was a huge fan of in the 90s.

Cash Rewards > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 12:05

Yes. Establish boundaries, and enforce them.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 12:17

I legitimately don’t know what I’d do, as I’ve been in similar bad situations before (people that work their way into being dependent on you). It’s a trait of most of my family and I became so conditioned to it that I think it made it easier for my exes that played the same games.

The only thing that worked for me was getting far away from them and/or cutting them off. It doesn’t sound like something you’d want to do and that’s what will make it so hard. Even when I cut these people off, it took extraordinary effort over time to maintain my position. The worst part is that they’re otherwise good people that I often enjoyed being around, they just happened to be toxic.

I’d be very reluctant to take him in, between the addiction and his history, you’ll likely end up with a difficult problem that would likely tear your relationship apart to fix, leaving you worse off than just saying “no” to begin with. The confounding factor that he helped in the past makes it harder, because I wouldn’t personally be able to avoid paying the kindness he showed you back.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Danger
04/07/2018 at 12:25

It sounds like the kind of person that would push boundaries, though. Some people if you give them an inch they really work that until you give them a lot more.

I’d love to employ these people as salespeople so they could have a healthy outlet for their talents, but I’d never want them living with me for free.

TheRealBicycleBuck > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 12:49

Just keep in mind that helping your friend doesn’t mean you have to offer him your spare room. I’m sure you can find some other way to lend a hand without inviting an alcoholic into your home.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Eric @ opposite-lock.com
04/07/2018 at 12:52

yeah, if he hadn’t helped me in the past I would feel much more able to just stop taking his calls and cut him off... I’ve written a contract (of dubious legal enforceability, I realize...) That lays out the expectation that we’ll keep his stuff for him, but he himself has to be gone by the end of 45 days, or we’ll have him removed as a trespasser... This isn’t even to say I’ve necessarily agreed to have him, but at the very least it puts boundaries on HOW I would be willing to have him...

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > TheRealBicycleBuck
04/07/2018 at 13:08

yeah, that’s been suggested... I just worry that if I offered to help him with rent he’ll end up homeless eventually anyway... he’s very easily influenced, and he’s been living in a bad part of town as it were, and the people he’s been associating with have NOT helped... I’ve told him he needs to get his shit together (which I’ve seen him do, I know he’s capable) I have the fixer gene too... “maybe if we just take him out of the bad situation....” Le-Sigh.

Teh Penguin of Doom > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 13:24

Invent some event that’s a hard deadline for him to move out. On June 10th Aunt Mildred from Ocala is moving in to that room and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Teh Penguin of Doom > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 13:26

Note that in most states if someone’s been sleeping somewhere for a month, it’s really, really hard to find a legal means to get them out.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Teh Penguin of Doom
04/07/2018 at 13:30

Hmmm

Teh Penguin of Doom > Steve is equipped with Electronic Fool Injection
04/07/2018 at 13:42

Tell more.

Chuckles > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 14:16

It would be tough to not offer him a place to stay temporarily, but I imagine that it would be a lot tougher a month from now to demand that he leaves, knowing he has nowhere to go.

I’ve helped out friends before, and they took advantage of it. I told them that they could stay if they spent all day job hunting. I gave them a place to sleep, a place to shower and do laundry. I worked all day, so I’d make them leave in the morning when I left. It turns out they’d wait until I was gone and just climb back in a window and hang out all day, and then leave right before I came home to let them in.

shop-teacher > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 15:20

Yeah, never let a guest stay more than 30 days. Otherwise they legally live there. Maybe give him a 3-week limit? That gives you a little time to get the authorities involved if need be.

McMike > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 19:00

Give him a move out date. “Sure, you can stay here for a month while you are looking for a new place to live.”

Don’t like him bring anything but a suitcase.

I went through this with a cousin of mine. I didn’t set a date and he lived here for two years.

Most of that time he was driving back and forth to see a girlfriend in another state, so he was never here. It wasn’t so bad that it lasted that long, he was paying 1/3 of my mortgage.

The next time he wanted to do it, I set a date of a month, and didn’t charge rent. Only let him bring a suitcase.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > Teh Penguin of Doom
04/07/2018 at 19:30

Dammit... why does Mildred always have to come to visit at the worst times????

TheRealBicycleBuck > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 20:08

My half-brother was an addict. Our uncles (one on my side, one on his mom’s) worked together to get him moved to another state, made sure he had a good job, and got him set up in a new apartment. The first thing he did was find the same kind of people he was hanging around in Houston, failed a drug test and lost his job, found another job where he managed to get injured, got hooked on pain pills, and died from an overdose of pain pills and alcohol - exactly how our father died.

You can move an addict to a new place, but it’s up to him to beat the addiction.

coqui70 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
04/07/2018 at 20:35

Rent him a room at an extended stay place for a month.